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Vanessa Bell, Mea Campbell, Dinah Rowe-Roberts, Linda Karkafi, Lauren Stokoe, Lauren Hamilton, Jodi Geddes, Brook McCarthy, Amreeta Abbott, Odette Barry, Katrina McCarter, Nandeeta Maharaj.
3. Episode 42 Dinah Rowe-Roberts
5. Episode 92 Lauren Stokoe
6. Episode 69 Lauren Hamilton
11. Episode 10 Katrina McCarter
12. Episode 61 Nandeeta Maharaj
Produced by - Lucy Kippist
Edited by - Morgan Sebastian Brown
Interviewers - Carrie Kwan and Lucy Kippist
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Loved this episode of Mumbition The Podcast? Find out more from our special guest.
Welcome to a special episode of Mumbition The Podcast by Mums & Co. Today, we’re taking a journey back through the insights and stories of some of the incredible women entrepreneurs.
Why risk you may ask? Risk is an important consideration for any business owner and comes in all shapes and forms. Mums & Co is supported by NRMA Insurance. Together, Mums & Co and NRMA Insurance make a powerful team. They give business-owing women the support they need to start and stay in business. While Mums & Co celebrates the optimism and bravery of building something new, NRMA Insurance prepares and supports them if things don’t go to plan.
In this compilation episode, we delve into the diverse ways these inspiring leaders manage and experience risk in their businesses. From calculated gambles to bold leaps of faith, join us as we revisit the pivotal decisions that have shaped their paths to success. Whether you’re a seasoned business owner or just starting out, there’s a wealth of wisdom to be discovered in the experiences of these tenacious women. So sit back, relax, and let’s explore the multifaceted world of risk in entrepreneurship, together on Mumbition.
First up, let's hear from four women who say that doing their due diligence is how they are more comfortable with risk in their businesses.
First up Carrie chats with Vanessa Bell:
[https://www.mumsandco.com.au/podcasts/episode-39-vanessa-bell]
[00:11:09:20]
Carrie Kwan
“So let's turn our attention a little bit to another part of the business. How are you actually factoring risk into your journey?”
00:11:19:14 - 00:14:48:06
Vanessa
“I started the business in 2017, so we really enjoyed a tremendous run. I suppose with every business there's always risks. I definitely erred on the side of big. So really thinking big, really having a strategy map. In fact, I actually draw trees so I will draw a tree trunk and branches and so because I'm quite visual, so I'd like to be able to see what that tree will look like, understanding that that tree needs a solid base and foundations and good soil.
I really think it's important to have a great legal team, have a really good accountancy team behind you, and have a business plan. But that to me, I know that I need that, but it's to be able to mitigate risk. Obviously, you need all of those things. But as it stands now, my small business is expanding into an entire design team.
With that comes project timelines and financial controlling and the need for a consistent cash flow so that you're able to have a very smooth path to market. In terms of my cattle business, that's seen me really leverage my existing assets to buy a huge slice of Australian dirt, which I feel really proud of and not from an ego perspective because I think it's really important that particularly Philip and I have a very unusual entrepreneur approach.
I can never say the word entrepreneurial approach to farming. I think risk is really necessary to achieve success, so sometimes it can be really stressful managing every element. But I'm really grateful that Phillip and I are 100% a team. We’re a really solid team. We run all the aspects of our business past each other.
In fact, I'm in the process of heading up the new carbon part of the business. So Phillip is all about his cattle, that's what he wants to do. So when you think about the average farm and what we are able to produce, I think it's quite a good skill set that we've; got my business skills from the city and his skills from the bush.
Together we kind of come together and work through things. So, I'm not sure if I'm answering that in an articulate way. But I think you have to factor in risk, but you're not able to achieve that by buying a 60,000-acre cattle station plus our other outback properties, plus my business, unless you're prepared to put yourself out there.
I've had meetings and I think it's also interesting when you talk about being a woman in business at that level. I had lots of discussions where the finance people would ring up and say, “Oh, is your husband there? He needs to sign this.” And then I'd have to point out to them, well, in actuality, these are my properties that we're looking at leveraging as well.
I think there's a change in perspective about what it means to be a woman in business. Again, that's why I think it's important to change the narrative about what it means to be a woman in Ag and also around taking on risk. I think there's a mindset that having risk is a negative. I disagree. I think you've got to have an element of risk and really action that in a calculated way.”
Lucy
We’re diving back to the beginning of this podcasts’ history now. Back in episode five we chatted with Mea Campbell, Founder of Connected AU. Here’s what she shared on her approach to risk and due diligence:
[Mums & Co (mumsandco.com.au)]
[0:25:29 - 0:25:46]
Carrie
“… How does this role in wellbeing shape your approach to business risk and what types of processes and measures do you put in place to protect your business in that sense?”
Mea
0:25:47 - 0:27:26
“That's a great question. It's really complex. So just a few of the little things. I am lucky with my background in law because when I first started the letterbox projects, I was very risk focused and so I identified all the risks and how I could mitigate them. Also, even the fact that it's just a pen pal programme, what it has become because the processes and safety that I've set up so we don't share any personal information or identifiable personal information. All of the letters are vetted through our team, which is why it's grown, and that's why everyone is really enjoying it and trusting it. But that's huge in itself. So 500 letters a week are coming in and being sent, and as you can imagine, we have thousands and thousands of people on our systems, and that all requires automation and a lot of complicated computer technology. Workflows that I obviously had to outsource all of that. But I've built in some really strong security and safety so that it's protecting us, but also so we're protecting everyone. So if you write Lucy, if you wrote to someone and there's a woman in a nursing home somewhere and she's writing to you, you both are absolutely protected. You don't know where each other lives. It's even down to the point where if someone sends a letter and does include some personally identifiable information, like their email or their Facebook handle or whatever it might be, we black that out. So we just make sure that there are these great relationships developed, but absolutely no risk to either of them and to our business, which is huge. And that's why I had to quickly figure out funding and my revenue. And how am I going to generate income because I needed people to read.
Every single letter is vetted. So I needed people to do that, and I needed people to manage this entire workflow system with thousands of automations. If you sign up to write a letter, you don't just receive an email with your person. You receive a welcome email and then an email with your recipient, and then we'll tell you when we've got your letter. We tell you when they have received your letter, we tell you when the letters are on its way back to you. So like so many systems. So that safety and then our second programme, which are the online hobby groups that I mentioned again, it's all focused on risk. How do you mitigate that? What's the best legal? What's the best way for us to be really protected and everyone else? And so that is why I needed the staff member, the manager of each of those clubs, because everything is monitored so that there's a group chat where everyone talks about their recipes and she has photos of their dinner that they've cooked wherever it might be. And she's there. She's a full time manager. She manages the monthly event on Zoom. Where we all cook, so there's that constant management and safety, and I think it's so important. It's so important in any business, but certainly because my focus is on supporting vulnerable people. It needed to be focused on protecting everyone.”
Lucy
As a business owning mother one of the things we’re always looking for is life hacks to make the juggle a little easier. Our third guest who also highlighted due diligence as a risk mitigation strategy was Dinah Rowe-Roberts, one of the founders of Life Hackers, chatting here with Carrie about launching their business partnership.
[Mums & Co (mumsandco.com.au)]
[00:06:12:06 - 00:06:38:18]
Carrie Kwan
“ How would you describe your relationship to risk as a business partnership? What are some of the processes that you've put in place to protect yourself as an individual within the business partnership, as well as the business itself?”
Dinah
[00:06:39:06 - 00:07:57:17]
“I think one of the things we did very early on was we actually incorporated ourselves. We established a company structure even when we were quite small and we didn't really know if we were going to be able to make a go of it. But what that really did was put some structure around the business. It obviously has some legal benefits as well, and we put in place a shareholder agreement. It’s really simple, but it's got some structures in place, including some quarterly meeting process.
Once a quarter we get together to talk about what we've worked on, what's worked well, what our plans are for the future, and those sorts of things are really important. What we're both really passionate about is that time has a value and so we really value each other's respective times. When we're thinking about the risk, it's really about protecting our time as well, which is so important, so we've made the decision at the moment to still keep our paid work.
What that means is we're protecting ourselves in terms of our own income. We're not putting all our eggs into the basket. What we are willing to do is pay to outsource some of the things that we don't have time to do, so that our business can continue to have momentum. I think all of those things play into risk from my perspective.”
Lucy
One of my favourite things about this podcast is getting to share the stories of our community with the world. In this episode we spoke with Linda Karkafi, founder of Commcentric and one of our longest standing members.
[Mums & Co (mumsandco.com.au)]
[00:12:12:14 - 00:13:06:19]
Carrie Kwan
“… Risk is certainly an unavoidable part of the business journey in that process. What sort of processes have you actually adopted as a business and how do you protect yourself?”
Linda Karkafi
[00:13:06:19 - 00:14:05:08]
“It is the less exciting part of running a business, I have to say, but it is so extremely important. One example has been in the area of getting good legal support, whether it's registering trademarks right through to contracts. So making sure that's looked at on an ongoing basis and other areas I suppose includes having a really good accountant, who makes sure my books are in order, and having a system that makes sense for me to ensure that the business is sustainable.
Overall, I approach business with integrity and probably not a very common response to this question, but ensuring that all the decisions I make on a day to day basis about the operations of the business, ethical and socially responsible, it really does safeguard me and protect me from potential risks.”
Lucy
Digging back through the archives we discovered a number of themes in the way that our community of business owners approaches risk in their businesses. One of these was to do with protecting your Intellectual Property. Here’s what two of our interviewees Lauren Stokoe and Lauren Hamilton have to say. First up Lauren Stokoe from IP Australia:
Carrie/Lucy
“Now, we're quite fascinated by the way our community of small business owners perceive risk. And it's always a fascinating question when you actually go, what is your relationship to the risk? How does it actually impact the way you do business? So how would you describe your relationship to the area of risk?”
Lauren
“That's a great question. It's very interesting because I mean, we all engage and manage risks in our day to day lives, right? Whether personally or in your business, things that you sort of almost take for granted around, you know, I get in a car, I put on my seatbelt, I drive, I'm engaging in risk by doing that. So my approach to risk is quite similar to, I mean, I follow IP Australia's approach to risk management in the governments, which is not about stopping or preventing action. It's about empowering yourself and your team to engage with that risk in an informed way. So risk's inevitable. It's often necessary for innovation and growth, but it needs to be managed carefully and responsibly in a very open and transparent sort of manner. I try to sort of look at the benefits and the costs of taking a risk, the likelihood or the impact of different scenarios. And also what's my risk appetite for that particular, possible scenario? Knowing what my appetite for risk is, my business's appetite for risk is, and then also seeking feedback from sort of relevant people and stakeholders that you might have is important to know also, you know, how far can we stretch something? We do it with TM Checker, you know, we were just talking about AI and data privacy. There's risks with using AI. And we had to ensure that, for instance, the tool was as accurate as possible, that's reliable, it's secure, it's compliant with laws and legislation and data privacy. So we conducted a huge amount of testing and validation and evaluation, and we talked to a lot of users, so experts in sort of the security world, but also in trademarks, but also just small businesses to understand those sort of limitations. I guess in my view, to sum up risk management is similar to the use of AI in that go in with your eyes open, be conscious of your responsibility to your staff and your customers, and make sure that those risks are well considered.”
https://www.mumsandco.com.au/podcasts/episode-69-how-content-is-like-bolognese
Lucy
Onto our second Lauren on risk. At the time of our podcast recording Lauren Hamilton was running her own marketing agency and was in the process of developing a new product:
Carrie/Lucy
“You're the founder of a professional services business at the moment I would love to hear about some of the strategies you've implemented in order to protect yourself and your business from risk?”
Lauren Hamilton
“This is really topical for me at the moment because I have developed this new product so it's not something I've thought a lot about in the past because the professional services I offered I didn't feel were you know how I do them is unique but what I'm offering wasn't especially unique but the new product that I've launched is particularly unique so I'm working at the moment with trademark lawyers to protect you know my IP and really make sure that nobody else can replicate what I've done
But what I've seen from working with other businesses and to be honest my own business is that we don't take risk seriously enough. I think we don't take it seriously enough there's a lot of flippancy around password protection there's not a lot of concern about protecting, I mean some businesses are different but really if I'm speaking generally there's not a lot of concern about protecting the privacy of subscribers and things like that and it's not that people want to you know court risk it's just that we haven't thought about it enough until recently so it hasn't really been on the radar but it's come more on to the radar since we've had these various scandals with optics and so forth of people's details being released in a way that is really compromising it's come on to the radar for more small businesses now. “
Lucy
Wrapping up today’s episode we look back on the different tolerance some of our community have for risk in their businesses. Here we share three business owners who say they have a high tolerance for risk and three women who identify as having a low tolerance for risk. Let’s jump into our discussions with Jodi Geddes, Brook McCarthy and Amreeta Abbott and their high tolerance for risk. First up is Jodie Geddes:
[https://www.mumsandco.com.au/podcasts/episode-14-jodi-geddes]
[00:08:46:11 - 00:09:05:05]
Lucy Kippist
“And just on that point, Jodi, obviously when you started out, that might have been the dream or, you know, it might have been a goal. And that growth has happened. What are the types of things that you've had to do within the business to protect yourself from risk as you've grown and now you're taking on international markets?”
Jodi Geddes
[00:09:06:02 - 00:09:22:16]
“Yeah, it's a great question. I think first and foremost, you can't be a successful founder unless you have an appetite for risk, like you have to be OK with taking risks. And that's something that Kate and I definitely share.
I will say, though, it's about taking calculated risks. So I think one of the things that we've been really good at from the beginning is not being afraid to jump in and make decisions and move quickly. I think we've got fire in our belly and we want to be successful and keep growing the business.
But it's about being really clear as to what's a negotiable versus a non-negotiable. And for us, it's been about having an amazing CFO and a legal counsel team right beside us to support us on our journey. So we really use them for advice and a very clear now on when we need to use them from a risk perspective or versus actually we can make this decision ourselves. So risk is key, you know, making sure you have a risk management plan and that everything you do, you really looking at it from a risk perspective and making sure that you're prepared if something does go wrong.
Lucy Kippist
Yeah, I particularly like what you said there about the importance of being okay with the risk as a founder, as a startup founder. I think that's so, so important and it isn't something that everybody's comfortable with. So I guess to have that in your back pocket as you're growing something like this has probably most obviously been a massive strength for you and Circle In.
Jodi Geddes
Yeah, I think you are spot on. I mean, for us, you know, we decided early on to go down the investment path. That was a huge risk. We jumped into it and now we're just embracing it. You know, we decided to go global.
That's a huge risk, you know, hiring our first employee overseas. But you've got to take these risks to move forward. So again, it's been calculated with them and making sure that you're doing it in the right way.
But I truly believe that it's one of the key values that you need to have to be a successful founder.
Carrie Kwan
I agree not being risk-averse. Bring it on. It's a bit like parenting, really...”
Lucy
Next we revisit an interview between Carrie and Brook McCarthy and how she defines her high appetite for risk in business.
Carrie Kwan (16:27):
“In terms of creating a deeply caring space for business owning women, business owning mothers, we look at upskilling, we look at networking and I'm also fascinated with this journey that we have. We take on quite a lot of risks when we're running a business. How do you protect your business?”
Brook McCarthy (16:47):
“That's a good question. I don't think I think like that. I would love to be a little bit it more like that. I'm the kind of person who jumps in the deep end, but certainly I think that right here and now, a lot of it has to do with mood. A lot of it has to do with protecting my mood and my attitude so that I'm going to do the best job possible. I think that it's something which is difficult to notice it. It's a little bit like the analogy of boiling the frog, where you turn up the heat slowly, and the person doesn't notice that actually their attitude or their mood is pretty funky, pretty low. It happens slowly over time.
The more risks I take in business, the more I grow, the more I push myself outside of my comfort zone. The more scared I get, the more important self care becomes. The more important it is for me, at the very least, to have a good night's sleep. Not just once, but every single night, and to do those things that I know are going to be good for my mental health, because it is true that things that used to be a big deal become far less of a big deal. If a proposal that I was excited out got rejected, for example. 6, 7, 8years ago, that might have put me in a bad mood for three days. Whereas now, maybe five minutes and I'll move on, but bigger growth, bigger risks, bigger stress means other things become a problem. Then it's a really important to mitigate that risk with self care. I cannot overstate that?”
Lucy
Our final community member who identifies as having a high tolerance for risk is Amreeta Abbott and we delve into her experience next.
Carrie/Lucy
“Now let's talk about risk. We've got business advisory, we've got signatory obligations. How does everyone view risk? Are there any processes that you put in place to help you manage that at different stages of the growth of your business?”
Amreeta Abbott (26:30):
“Yeah, I think this is probably something that's misunderstood. I'm a very aggressive decision maker, and that doesn't mean I'm reckless, but I'm very, very aggressive. And so with that, I'm definitely embracing innovation. I have rapid growth and I don't have any tolerance for failure, things like this and short-term agility. So you have to have it. You have to be strong, you have to be vibrant, you have to really push hard. And that can be, like I said, misunderstood in terms of just being reckless, but it's certainly is not.
So anyone that's out there that's starting a business, one of the ways to succeed is go hard, go aggressively, give it all you got, and I'm sure that you'll actually come out on top. Because as Stacie said before, it's not about who you know, it's about what you're doing. And if you aren't putting your heart and soul into it, if you're not passionate about it, it won't work. So you have to have that aggressive nature towards risk. And again, you still make informed decisions, so you're not actually going to, as I said, recklessly. I still knew that there was competitors. I still knew that e-sign was very infant in Australia. To go to market, I was very aggressive and I still am.”
Lucy
And now to ease us into the other end of the spectrum. Three women in business who regard themselves as having a low tolerance to risk in their business. First up is Odette Barry, whose mission is to make visibility accessible and weighs up whether she has a high or low risk tolerance in our chat.
[00:18:55:03 - 00:19:19:02]
Carrie/Lucy
“So I wanted to flip our conversation a little bit to more on the relationship to this concept of risk. How would you describe your relationship to risk?”
Odette
“When you sent these questions, I kind of sat with that for a while because I would say that I've got a reasonably high risk tolerance. But then I sat with that and I was like, yeah, but my husband works full time, and we could totally survive on his salary if things went completely bust. So when I can make risky or courageous decisions in my business, and decide to change my business model as I did five years ago, you know, to someone that didn't have that fall back comfort in my, you know, household finance, that would have been extremely risky. And of course, it was. But it totally paid off. But it also I could make that risky decision because of coming from a reasonably safe space. So I was like, maybe my tolerance for risk is actually quite appalling and I make quite calculated decisions based on what we can actually handle, if that makes sense.
Carrie
You know, the concept of risk is to be aware of it and have concepts to mitigate any of those or controls to mitigate that particular risk. So and I you know, again, I feel like women are some of the most courageous business owning women in our community as some of the most courageous women. And they'll say that they're risk adverse, but yet they're stepping into the unknown and they may not have their target market sorted out or they may not have their, you know, all the pieces of the puzzle of running a business. And I just find that a fascinating perspective because they are they are the biggest risk takers, even they may not perceive them. And as also with the level of having a family or caring responsibilities, I think we often have to blend those two risks together.”
Lucy
Next up is Katrina McCarter, who had an insightful conversation with us about connecting with the world’s most powerful consumer; mums. Katrina identifies herself as having a low tolerance for risk in her business.
Lucy Kippist (14:38)
“Obviously, you are someone that is comfortable with risk because you've created such a successful business and that doesn't come without any risk, without dreaming big. But I'm just wondering, on the other side of that, while you are dreaming big, how do you protect yourself and your business from risk as you're developing these big goals and these big dreams?”
Katrina (14:59)
“I actually think, Lucy, that's a really, really important question. We don't talk about risk a whole lot, and I'm actually quite risk averse. So whilst I'm willing to take these small probabilities, I'm quite risk averse by nature. So one of the key things that I do in my business that gives me a great degree of comfort is that I always make sure I've got three to six months running costs. My salary, running my business. I know that I've got that sitting in cash in my bank account at all times. And I don't allow myself to go under that. The other thing that I do is I'm really careful about my cost centers. And again, that comes from growing up with a single mum. Boy, did I learn to budget, and I'm really, really careful about spending money in my business. And I'm always looking for ways that I might not need to pay money to do something. So I collaborate. So for the last decade in business, I have collaborated with so many other like-minded women who are not in competition with me, but we share the same audience. And we will work together to promote each other's businesses rather than me invest in advertising. And I still very much use a partnership-first strategy in my business. And it's allowed me to build three brands and a global reputation. And I don't invest money in advertising. I just, don't.”
Lucy
And last but not least we jump back into a conversation with Nandeeta Maharaj who is the founder of social enterprise Goods For Good.
Lucy/Carrie
“How would you describe your relationship to risk in your business? How do you actually feel that way?"
Nandeeta
00:20:01:05 - 00:21:15:00
“I am risk averse with this business. As you said, I have never run a business before, so I have got three layers.
My first layer is I'm a startup, I'm a founder, sole founder. Secondly, you add a layer of competing in a really loud marketplace, the e-commerce marketplace, you've got a lot of big players in there, so competing within that. Then to top it off, you add a layer of social entrepreneurship, which is an impact driven mindset, it is very challenging.
I try not to take risks at this stage of my business because I'm learning at a ferocious speed. I've been in this business for a year and I'm learning, executing, learning, executing, and I'm doing it to the best of my ability without investing too much because I think this is a long game for me, because the education for social enterprises is definitely out there, it's definitely starting. But I need to move with the pace of that education, so I'm trying to make sure I minimize my risk at this stage.
Carrie Kwan
You know, I think it's pertinent to remind ourselves that risk changes as the business evolves. It's not something that we kind of look at it and go,”Oh, right now I'm going to make an assessment and it's going to stay like that.” If you're growing at a rapid pace, it can actually change dramatically in those few months.
Just a good practice to get into that mindset of going, “Okay, we have actually changed that something significant, the team’s growing bigger, or the products or services that we've entered in the market,” to actually constantly think about what are the scenarios that I need to think about right now and what's changed? And is my appetite for that type of risk still the same? Or how do I mitigate it once it's changed? Thanks for sharing a little perspective there.”
Lucy
That brings us to the end of today’s episode. We’ve really enjoyed revisiting these interviews and seeing how different business owning women deal with risk in their business. Risk is something that we deal with every day, as parents and as business owners and it’s been fascinating seeing how we all manage it.
If you want to listen to the full version of any of these episodes you can find the links in the show notes.
If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode please like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, that way new episode will drop into your feed automatically.
Also, if you know another woman in business who would enjoy these stories please feel free to share with them! We love supporting as many business owning women as possible and this is a great way for them to find this fabulous community.
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